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now for our interview with former area

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51 CIA employee TD Barnes I started by

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asking him when he first went to work

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for the CIA other than military I'd

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already been working with the CIA and I

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didn't have any problem getting

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assignment to Havana and they had what

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Stroh's Seven Sisters which was radar

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site one radar beside was 45 miles from

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area 51 and those initially assigned at

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that we were tracking the f-15 there

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should be 70 their unending vehicles

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that sort of thing so it's also tracking

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well control 900 area 51 that's one of

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their seven sisters and then I went from

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there out to area 51 that's where I

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finished up my career so you left the

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army and then went to work directly for

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the CIA directly work for the on a NASA

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high range and I would sit there I was

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representing see a house contractor and

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but we were tracking - what this slide

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out at NASA the flame on high range they

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said mean that sort of thing and in

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reading your bio says that you were

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working at one point on a project to a

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have spacecraft the nuclear-powered so

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to go on extra long missions such as to

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Mars yeah that was an urban project when

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I left the national high range I spent

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about three months on the nerve across a

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developing user broccoli in the

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intention to go to Mars

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so we had a Mars pretty anybody

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surprising for people to know that we

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had a Mars project that long ago yeah I

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think through 500 days we had the engine

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and we had the missiles which is there

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no way you using a different offer

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planet with all the radioactivity but we

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had the missile be

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they built eeper terseness even probably

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late 5959 her so what years were you

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working on that that would be 1967 so we

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had obviously meant we'd obviously been

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to the moon and already looking at the

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next destination and we were looking at

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Mars and the thinking was that the most

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efficient way to get to Mars is through

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but you were saying in order for it to

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launch it required nuclear to launch no

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no there's no way that they say a space

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station or something like that she could

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still a prominent we got if you miss two

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lucky missile range that like that so

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there's been you know we have nuclear

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submarines and we have nuclear aircraft

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carriers but we've never had any type of

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sure so we made business reactor permit

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not practical because why all the weight

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was involved there's so much weight

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involved and so when when people talk

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about current project to go to Mars

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whether it be

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SpaceX talking about it or the US

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military are they talking about nuclear

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powered or not they have revisited some

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of the things that the Nerva project yes

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and we do have

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you know in the back burner we've got

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that capability but did that have any of

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a spaceport in orbit to ever use it just

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because of your radiation that's he were

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to release during launch and what were

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you dealing with you know

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superconductors and some of these newer

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ideas with nuclear energy but they got

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room temperature yeah room temperature

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superconductors so that came up later

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you think yeah you know we have to work

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underground that's where a larger story

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come out about underground stuff in the

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beta test and the reactor sit with the

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rear Ian into the air and what so that

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you know anyone tried to go anywhere and

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we've actually had all of our

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instrumentation just below it the

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underground sleep when you're

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underground and what well almost half

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mile and then here dig rooms and stuff

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and all your electronics in it and with

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the two reactors up above this we've set

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off a lot of nuclear bombs in Nevada

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right oh yeah the oversell over a

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thousand new and and and are these bombs

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equivalent to Hiroshima type bombs

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[Music]

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maybe later

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and what's the closest that you've been

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to one of these tests different tests

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and we'd be about probably about ten

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miles from Ground Zero and you could see

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the

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underground one that we're done and

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you've got seeds around rippling it as

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it came across and you feel you know a

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little shaken what hey and see the dust

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ride just like dropping a rock into

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water

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no the ill the ripples that makes the

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same thing is underground from under

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breath underground so we also do a lot

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of ground tests though but they had been

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doing them oh yeah that we don't do them

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anymore because we don't consider them

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safe

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no trees we got the Russian there and

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talk a little bit about there's a

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nuclear waste dump site around there

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right yeah we mountainous for all your

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loader your race from all your around

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the country yeah right it's not safe to

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be keeping all the waste at the various

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reactors so the idea was we were gonna

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put it all in one safe place and we

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built this incredible underground

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nuclear waste facility that then was

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never used am i right yeah and it's 100%

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built and at what cost was that built at

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OB I think we got at least 30 yeah it's

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one of the biggest pink elephant or

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whatever you call it elephant white

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elephant projects in the history like to

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complain about the Bullock of the

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California bullet train here but this

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one takes the cake right the only people

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politicians well but I thought didn't it

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actually go to a vote of the people in

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no but it was the vada somehow I thought

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it was the Nevada government somehow

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state government that somehow prevented

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was perfectly fine with thirty billion

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dollars being spent to build the thing

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but then God forbid you put any actual

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waste in it there's that fear is it

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still possible that it's going to be

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used as there any movement afoot that

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they're actually gonna use it for waste

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it they try to get refund they use a bit

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of funding for it every year they're not

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enough to put it in production we got in

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trouble a government did they ships from

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the podium here to Nevada unannounced

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towards the end of last year never

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several months worrying one knew about

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it and all their politicians the rage

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think about it probably he brought it in

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it and where did it come from

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I'm not sure Tennessee or someplace like

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that how many nuclear reactors is a US

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energy directions is us have right now

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[Music]

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more than opening yeah yeah solar power

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wind power is I don't know I really hate

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to see them shut them down because the

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your solar power in your list for power

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once a governor stopped subsidizing the

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company said producing it the prices

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from beaching important it's not yeah

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and in nuclear when it you know you got

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everybody all worked up about climate

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change nuclear is clean energy right

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clean energy and the going is your solar

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power right now they're all be

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Avery government to do it well if I tell

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you once you want your government check

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stock we stop no yeah I don't understand

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why they not embracing nuclear it really

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is a serious contradiction to say that

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you're you want clean energy but you're

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opposed to nuclear and there's this

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workaround noodler we're not sure of it

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we respected the kids though it's not

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some evil thing that you know a lot of

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people try to make it out to be

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I've been down to Ground Zero after a

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test within an hour after an under eye

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test

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yeah pulled away just set them off

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everybody we have experiments

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underground and they go in to refer to

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experiments and of course it you weren't

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getting into the irradiation area and

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but you go back down into brown zero

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power Hydra is probably still Delta

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radiation so talk about area 51 and how

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you originally got assigned there and

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who you're working for

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[Music]

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most of the CIA Special Projects we were

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developing stealth for the a12 spot lane

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they're all replaced at YouTube and I

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went in as radar that sort of thing and

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uh and one of the various things that we

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were getting our hands on a lot of

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Russian radar and we were using those so

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we could determine how well we were

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doing with our projects so that was

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basically my thing was so we were ready

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to learn and that's what so was area

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5051 kind of the original secret

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projects location I'm sorry was it was

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area 51 is kind of the original secret

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projects location for the military it

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was great and it went over to the Air

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Force in 1979

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that's when the CIA got her wings

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clipped because of the Vietnam War and

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they were

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you know team attractive protesters that

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sort of thing and you're gonna realize

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all of a sudden it's a CIA station in

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Nevada and you're not allowed to have a

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CI station in the United States so we

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had to turn it over the Air Force and

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what yours is actually there I actually

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own size was not associated with the

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project starting actually starting in

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1960 you know when physically there

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that's one thing a lot of people don't

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know is less than five percent the

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people that worked on own project area

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for 51 every year the CIA was even in it

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so far minimized and re what the project

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was and you'll still hear people that

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worked out there that talk about the

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sr-71 what's this test or said what was

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never ever at 3:51 they 12c is a a12 was

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and the other two blackbirds the m21

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which was mothership with drone and then

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we had two Y of 12 which is carried

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missiles but even the people working out

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there didn't necessarily know what they

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were who's that work for or exactly

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other did what your assignment was and

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why was it transferred to the Air Force

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as opposed to any other military

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divisions well their forces always

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involved state worked for the TA

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you only had our commander out there was

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always there force but they were didn't

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report about the change manner or

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strictly to CIA they were reported CIA

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and the reason for that was to keep some

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general me home from an and pulling rank

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or what you guys doing out there if you

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didn't have a need to know he didn't he

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didn't I don't care who you were so

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that's we had a general would start out

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to contact Ledford was at CI attacked

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his the I now through the air force

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reporting to

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he reported directly to DCI director but

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the air forced himself without the loop

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that's how each every secret no one

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you've got air kids one till their work

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performance every night and and sure

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enough the meditators over word got out

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out and that's where while the mystery

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came in then when people wanted what in

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the world had to see I have been doing

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for 20 years that we don't know about

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what about plant 42 in Palmdale

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what happens there versus what happens

275
00:16:01,680 --> 00:15:58,450
at area 51 other places like truck on

276
00:16:04,410 --> 00:16:01,690
Dell would be lucky nothing to build

277
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:04,420
each one is brought there to test so you

278
00:16:07,820 --> 00:16:06,250
don't like Boeing though they're testing

279
00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:07,830
in Seattle

280
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:12,160
lucky did there there are bill and but

281
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:13,210
that's where they do all different

282
00:16:19,980 --> 00:16:16,690
versions and then every pitch one and

283
00:16:21,690 --> 00:16:19,990
that's where they show what you got so

284
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:21,700
sorry you're saying it's built at plant

285
00:16:30,510 --> 00:16:24,570
42 and then brought to area 51

286
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:30,520
yeah a twelve by plane we hold those in

287
00:16:41,660 --> 00:16:36,480
boxes 35 two wide 518 trips always

288
00:16:44,010 --> 00:16:41,670
Burbank two very very thick one

289
00:16:46,140 --> 00:16:44,020
everything is built elsewhere brought

290
00:17:02,700 --> 00:16:46,150
there and what about where is it

291
00:17:05,130 --> 00:17:02,710
originally designed whatever say yeah

292
00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:05,140
but we only use notes for example their

293
00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:07,330
Lockheed well from her compete for

294
00:17:11,940 --> 00:17:09,089
government contracts they were the Navy

295
00:17:15,540 --> 00:17:11,950
they build whatever they're building and

296
00:17:18,060 --> 00:17:15,550
then and then they bring it to area 51

297
00:17:20,430 --> 00:17:18,070
and that's where we had old equipment

298
00:17:22,770 --> 00:17:20,440
stuff it's a laboratory that's where the

299
00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:22,780
Navy would come in they would be a

300
00:17:27,420 --> 00:17:24,400
customer the other people because

301
00:17:29,670 --> 00:17:27,430
everybody customers come in and and then

302
00:17:30,990 --> 00:17:29,680
we use our equipment our technology and

303
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:31,000
that's where they put

304
00:17:35,790 --> 00:17:33,370
through the paces let's see if they do

305
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:35,800
what he said it would and when a singer

306
00:17:40,140 --> 00:17:38,170
see was safe Boeing does moment air

307
00:17:41,010 --> 00:17:40,150
something they don't want a Lockheed

308
00:17:45,900 --> 00:17:41,020
knowing about it

309
00:17:48,660 --> 00:17:45,910
so so it's a hush and this is vice versa

310
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:48,670
so no one talks about what the others

311
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:52,000
got out there and this is a highly

312
00:17:56,910 --> 00:17:54,610
classified top-secret stuff

313
00:18:00,840 --> 00:17:56,920
help walk us through like exactly how

314
00:18:02,910 --> 00:18:00,850
secret it is I read in your bio how even

315
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:02,920
after your left area 51 that you were

316
00:18:15,930 --> 00:18:06,880
still getting visits from the FBI you

317
00:18:18,930 --> 00:18:15,940
know even the say the pilots was fine

318
00:18:22,740 --> 00:18:18,940
for the CIA they didn't go to Vietnam

319
00:18:26,580 --> 00:18:22,750
for under five years they no one knew

320
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:26,590
what they did they had done so they you

321
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:27,970
know he didn't won't get missing that

322
00:18:31,970 --> 00:18:29,410
you know it went back to the Air Force

323
00:18:35,220 --> 00:18:31,980
and no one knew what they did you know

324
00:18:38,370 --> 00:18:35,230
that's different but uh most of the

325
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:38,380
secrecy is freedom we were good mostly

326
00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:42,160
still that's a any gain or stealth and

327
00:18:47,610 --> 00:18:43,710
[Music]

328
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:47,620
the enemy knowing anything about her

329
00:18:53,550 --> 00:18:51,610
still that's what the secrets were so

330
00:18:56,820 --> 00:18:53,560
you wrote that the FBI was checking in

331
00:18:59,010 --> 00:18:56,830
asking neighbors etc to see make sure

332
00:19:00,780 --> 00:18:59,020
that you were financially sound not

333
00:19:10,290 --> 00:19:00,790
subject to potential blackmail not

334
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:10,300
desperate etc but your wife the wife

335
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:12,490
abused you disqualified quicker than

336
00:19:16,890 --> 00:19:14,770
anything if she drank too much she

337
00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:16,900
talked too much that [\h__\h] I mean

338
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:19,750
anything anything to keep through the

339
00:19:25,470 --> 00:19:24,130
maintain of secrecy so the family you're

340
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:25,480
very fortunate you had a wife that

341
00:19:37,410 --> 00:19:34,570
didn't talk too much always in secret

342
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:37,420
even talking about the very big one so

343
00:19:42,820 --> 00:19:40,690
she used it and but otherwise were they

344
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:42,830
they were hand-picked the family

345
00:19:48,649 --> 00:19:46,080
almost as strong as we were so with all

346
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:48,659
this secrecy and assurance of secrecy

347
00:19:52,940 --> 00:19:50,370
both before they let you in to begin

348
00:19:54,919 --> 00:19:52,950
with and even once you're out so does

349
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:54,929
that mean that the government is very

350
00:20:02,539 --> 00:19:56,570
good at keeping secrets

351
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:02,549
very good it's amazing how well we've

352
00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:04,890
got the super tell they're in you don't

353
00:20:10,190 --> 00:20:07,919
realize that example you know I worked a

354
00:20:15,740 --> 00:20:10,200
lot with the sr-71 guys which were all

355
00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:15,750
Air Force you know the Air Force pilot

356
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:19,049
ever flew the CIA's plane ever they true

357
00:20:23,570 --> 00:20:20,880
through the trainer but not the route so

358
00:20:29,810 --> 00:20:23,580
the plan and no see I ever flew as I

359
00:20:33,740 --> 00:20:29,820
said was a group of generals and

360
00:20:36,379 --> 00:20:33,750
colonels Waverly we got a roster rosters

361
00:20:39,379 --> 00:20:36,389
of everyone ever flew and the YouTube

362
00:20:41,299 --> 00:20:39,389
plane or any of the Blackbird planes so

363
00:20:43,269 --> 00:20:41,309
you have people who claim they flew and

364
00:20:45,860 --> 00:20:43,279
flew and we know in their older age

365
00:20:50,509 --> 00:20:45,870
we've done project out three two months

366
00:20:54,919 --> 00:20:50,519
ago and transfer Yahoo all modified into

367
00:20:58,700 --> 00:20:54,929
planes but never went operational and so

368
00:21:01,549 --> 00:20:58,710
CIA listened to classified documents

369
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:01,559
like crazy well wonder guys came across

370
00:21:07,129 --> 00:21:04,710
the CIA darkman just been released had

371
00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:07,139
this guy their own a third flight with

372
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:10,769
Blackbird he got on the roster so

373
00:21:13,129 --> 00:21:12,000
there's all wondering what it was they

374
00:21:15,259 --> 00:21:13,139
shot their Millions

375
00:21:17,930 --> 00:21:15,269
I said well listen you know that was the

376
00:21:20,990 --> 00:21:17,940
base from enter a Turkic one that's his

377
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:21,000
pseudo name and they did but it's our

378
00:21:25,549 --> 00:21:22,880
said oh my god it's three months rolled

379
00:21:28,250 --> 00:21:25,559
on his head did they learn to wait you

380
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:28,260
sued old names back in the cities let's

381
00:21:34,220 --> 00:21:30,510
see I did we got our names off a

382
00:21:35,419 --> 00:21:34,230
Brasenose in Europe and these guys I

383
00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:35,429
couldn't believe they didn't know that

384
00:21:41,389 --> 00:21:37,710
we've been so changes for years and

385
00:21:44,450 --> 00:21:41,399
years but is there a car what about do

386
00:21:46,909 --> 00:21:44,460
they in based on your information do

387
00:21:49,970 --> 00:21:46,919
little tests where they might plant some

388
00:21:56,020 --> 00:21:49,980
false information just to see if it

389
00:21:59,120 --> 00:21:56,030
leaks out I probably probably would we

390
00:22:03,080 --> 00:21:59,130
we were at Sobers conscious of security

391
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:03,090
back to in and G and you are chances why

392
00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:05,610
didn't over where we worked what we did

393
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:09,990
my wife fell down 19 army 2009 where I

394
00:22:14,420 --> 00:22:12,090
worked in where I did they flew it back

395
00:22:17,570 --> 00:22:14,430
CIA headquarters that's what we could

396
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:17,580
tell him because she was in Las Vegas at

397
00:22:26,380 --> 00:22:21,450
the time yes and you were your being

398
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:29,180
leave come back Friday night she had no

399
00:22:37,310 --> 00:22:34,890
idea where she is when I wrote my book

400
00:22:40,970 --> 00:22:37,320
is when she found out a bid the

401
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:40,980
appliance on the big air force base to

402
00:22:46,220 --> 00:22:44,010
Cuba and that's four times she had heard

403
00:22:48,260 --> 00:22:46,230
about that Wow he's got morning month

404
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:48,270
work came back that night I've been to

405
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:52,880
Cuban bad she didn't tell it so I

406
00:22:57,410 --> 00:22:55,170
listened to a couple bobbled azar

407
00:22:58,270 --> 00:22:57,420
interviews and I'm sure you're familiar

408
00:23:02,480 --> 00:22:58,280
with that name

409
00:23:06,530 --> 00:23:02,490
yeah oh yeah so he is there any doubt

410
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:06,540
that he worked at area 51 here work

411
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:11,970
there no well he's he he claims to have

412
00:23:21,260 --> 00:23:16,290
worked there in the late was at least 78

413
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:21,270
late eighties late eighties know how

414
00:23:26,690 --> 00:23:24,330
that works out there you know a

415
00:23:29,330 --> 00:23:26,700
quarterback muted in there even in my

416
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:29,340
day except art group that was working on

417
00:23:34,550 --> 00:23:32,610
the CIA it was apparently everybody else

418
00:23:37,310 --> 00:23:34,560
had a slide should he live in the state

419
00:23:41,060 --> 00:23:37,320
they had to commute in where it was

420
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:41,070
required and you first of all you had to

421
00:23:46,940 --> 00:23:43,290
be on a manifest for a year get on the

422
00:23:50,210 --> 00:23:46,950
plane and then fine be met by security

423
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:50,220
and they check your badges then and

424
00:23:58,550 --> 00:23:54,290
again a manifest on the other end and

425
00:24:01,460 --> 00:23:58,560
and lava sturdy guard to still live here

426
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:01,470
in Vegas they you know been part of the

427
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:04,170
Roadrunners a lot of people and

428
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:06,960
absolutely Lazare was never there wow

429
00:24:10,610 --> 00:24:08,610
these are guys that worked there in the

430
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:10,620
late 80s because I mean I've heard what

431
00:24:15,230 --> 00:24:13,050
Lazar tell his story he told it on a on

432
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:15,240
another podcast recently the Joe Rogan

433
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:16,890
show and he who goes into great detail

434
00:24:21,050 --> 00:24:19,410
and he talks about the flight that

435
00:24:23,540 --> 00:24:21,060
you're talking about now he talks about

436
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:23,550
the flight from Vegas to the secret

437
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:26,640
place and going back and forth you know

438
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:30,330
every week and some of the tests that he

439
00:24:33,650 --> 00:24:32,730
had to pass in order to to work there

440
00:24:38,150 --> 00:24:33,660
and then some of the things that he

441
00:24:40,970 --> 00:24:38,160
worked on yeah is that you know they

442
00:24:43,340 --> 00:24:40,980
thought about words like believe me

443
00:24:45,710 --> 00:24:43,350
there was absolutely nothing there you

444
00:24:48,140 --> 00:24:45,720
know he talked about sign for there is a

445
00:24:51,050 --> 00:24:48,150
sign for word that's where we had over

446
00:24:52,730 --> 00:24:51,060
so we radar we actually had a little

447
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:52,740
language trip it was that one of the

448
00:25:01,850 --> 00:24:55,290
remote sites that it was not a pet foods

449
00:25:03,530 --> 00:25:01,860
lake and so he heard about it and knows

450
00:25:05,380 --> 00:25:03,540
about the you know what we call the

451
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:05,390
chain of Lights

452
00:25:13,090 --> 00:25:08,490
so you know you make a good story but he

453
00:25:16,190 --> 00:25:13,100
no one no security people and no one

454
00:25:18,860 --> 00:25:16,200
knew him well in what is it also fair to

455
00:25:21,860 --> 00:25:18,870
say based on the amount of secrecy and

456
00:25:24,110 --> 00:25:21,870
and classified nests of everything that

457
00:25:26,210 --> 00:25:24,120
it makes no sense that a guy like that

458
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:26,220
would come out and say the things that

459
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:32,240
he said no and no and and other people

460
00:25:37,670 --> 00:25:35,520
but now would come out said yeah we use

461
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:37,680
you guys you know you kind of creepier

462
00:25:42,140 --> 00:25:40,290
this or that but that's the you know on

463
00:25:44,060 --> 00:25:42,150
prisons Road riders which is hope you

464
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:44,070
guys have worked out there well your

465
00:25:52,510 --> 00:25:47,610
your contractor two pilots the engineers

466
00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:52,520
everybody and we get you know whenever

467
00:25:59,270 --> 00:25:55,710
so the fact that you work there is not

468
00:26:02,060 --> 00:25:59,280
itself a secret obviously not my secret

469
00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:02,070
and it is it's what's going on out there

470
00:26:09,860 --> 00:26:07,260
now that's no CIA Declassified and and

471
00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:09,870
fire saying 2009 is when we should

472
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:14,240
actually say tell her wise where we were

473
00:26:18,940 --> 00:26:16,640
that's when they really released us to

474
00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:18,950
talk about it but we've been having

475
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:21,710
reunions since 1972

476
00:26:27,310 --> 00:26:24,530
so no I'm asking as you sit here today

477
00:26:29,020 --> 00:26:27,320
there's still projects that are that you

478
00:26:32,350 --> 00:26:29,030
worked on that you cannot speak about is

479
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:32,360
that correct oh yeah and a lot of them I

480
00:26:38,410 --> 00:26:35,450
wouldn't know about either you know once

481
00:26:40,150 --> 00:26:38,420
you leave there I don't care who you are

482
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:40,160
this you got a need to know you're out

483
00:26:46,090 --> 00:26:43,610
your absolute you expected a and you see

484
00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:46,100
the results later not to be too Bonner

485
00:26:51,940 --> 00:26:49,310
we know it's out there and you know f-22

486
00:26:55,870 --> 00:26:51,950
and the your drones the stuff that it's

487
00:26:57,940 --> 00:26:55,880
Italian you don't know so you're someone

488
00:27:00,100 --> 00:26:57,950
who spent a lot of time at area 51 you

489
00:27:03,370 --> 00:27:00,110
spent a lot of time and classified

490
00:27:06,250 --> 00:27:03,380
projects top-secret projects let's now

491
00:27:09,010 --> 00:27:06,260
kind of fold that in with these these

492
00:27:11,470 --> 00:27:09,020
tic-tac UFOs that people have been

493
00:27:14,050 --> 00:27:11,480
talking about the USS nimitz incident

494
00:27:16,420 --> 00:27:14,060
and what these things are

495
00:27:18,550 --> 00:27:16,430
the Navy has confirmed that the video is

496
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:18,560
real they've confirmed that the pilots

497
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:21,770
did in fact encounter something so Italy

498
00:27:27,910 --> 00:27:24,320
but but they say they don't know what it

499
00:27:30,100 --> 00:27:27,920
is we've had at least one guest on Mike

500
00:27:30,670 --> 00:27:30,110
tur burr saying that they do know what

501
00:27:35,170 --> 00:27:30,680
it is

502
00:27:37,660 --> 00:27:35,180
this is top-secret US technology and

503
00:27:39,850 --> 00:27:37,670
they were testing this technology over

504
00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:39,860
the over the waters and perhaps testing

505
00:27:44,890 --> 00:27:42,470
the u.s. zone surveillance system but

506
00:27:49,330 --> 00:27:44,900
this is super secret US technology

507
00:27:51,570 --> 00:27:49,340
incredible technology where aircraft can

508
00:27:56,530 --> 00:27:51,580
go underwater above water and go at

509
00:28:03,430 --> 00:27:56,540
supersonic speeds yeah you know we you

510
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:03,440
know the weather's warm you know with

511
00:28:07,630 --> 00:28:06,050
forms of stuff they can make them and we

512
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:07,640
think there's any number of ships or

513
00:28:14,020 --> 00:28:10,010
planes where they want to and it shows

514
00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:14,030
right back to project ladies familiar or

515
00:28:18,490 --> 00:28:17,120
not but we were trying to determine you

516
00:28:20,980 --> 00:28:18,500
know we knew the Russians had a new

517
00:28:23,410 --> 00:28:20,990
radar and we need to know whether or not

518
00:28:26,050 --> 00:28:23,420
it would be able to pick up the a12

519
00:28:27,900 --> 00:28:26,060
that we were building to replace to u2

520
00:28:30,730 --> 00:28:27,910
and so

521
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:30,740
it's practically in those we knew that

522
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:33,530
the head is because giddy reflections

523
00:28:38,410 --> 00:28:36,290
off of this new array are inside of

524
00:28:41,950 --> 00:28:38,420
Russia they were tracking their ICBMs

525
00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:41,960
and we picked up through inflation's so

526
00:28:48,010 --> 00:28:45,710
we head up see 97 that was flying out of

527
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:48,020
a big tear portly and this is where I

528
00:28:52,140 --> 00:28:50,090
got involved with agency is I was next

529
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:52,150
door at Fort Bliss

530
00:28:58,210 --> 00:28:55,010
side-by-side but I was advanced into

531
00:29:00,850 --> 00:28:58,220
this sort of thing so I feel actually

532
00:29:02,860 --> 00:29:00,860
traveled on two of these flies but had

533
00:29:06,250 --> 00:29:02,870
to serve Joe's plane that we applied at

534
00:29:09,100 --> 00:29:06,260
Cuba and once they turned on the rate of

535
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:09,110
the park we had a submarine said right

536
00:29:15,820 --> 00:29:13,760
ofsted the islands and once they started

537
00:29:18,460 --> 00:29:15,830
tracking us we would release balloons

538
00:29:24,010 --> 00:29:18,470
they in them they had different size as

539
00:29:26,620 --> 00:29:24,020
I recalibrated called spheres or devices

540
00:29:29,799 --> 00:29:26,630
anyway we were seeing what if they could

541
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:29,809
pick those up and and we were doesn't

542
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:31,970
fade away and let them pick up the stuff

543
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:34,370
we release into a submarine and we was

544
00:29:38,980 --> 00:29:36,559
able to tell which one to her track and

545
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:38,990
then maybe I wanted to tell this was

546
00:29:46,180 --> 00:29:42,530
they built his radar and Chloe learned

547
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:46,190
no it was that uh yes they would be able

548
00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:48,170
to track two planes in their fluor rush

549
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:51,710
again but the point is if we should

550
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:55,010
electronically make that radar thangkas

551
00:30:01,390 --> 00:29:57,410
track of one plane ten plane 20 planes

552
00:30:02,710 --> 00:30:01,400
where we wanted to from one tremon so

553
00:30:06,060 --> 00:30:02,720
where they'll do that in nineteen

554
00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:06,070
seconds and they've advanced so fast now

555
00:30:12,580 --> 00:30:11,809
it well known that it's our defense

556
00:30:16,150 --> 00:30:12,590
defense

557
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:16,160
there's sufficient confused enemy any

558
00:30:21,310 --> 00:30:19,370
number of planes that and and make them

559
00:30:23,620 --> 00:30:21,320
disappear just like what they're trying

560
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:23,630
so what we really think some of us that

561
00:30:28,390 --> 00:30:26,240
talk about this problem for so there's a

562
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:28,400
video with leech someone leaked the

563
00:30:36,790 --> 00:30:31,970
video I'm pretty sure or even Bentley

564
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:36,800
just says a little bit of ops to let the

565
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:39,440
Russians wonder what we've got you who

566
00:30:44,010 --> 00:30:40,570
knows what the game

567
00:30:47,340 --> 00:30:44,020
but anyway is I think that what they

568
00:30:49,950 --> 00:30:47,350
were doin see it was only one radar or

569
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:49,960
one type of system that the Navy had and

570
00:30:52,410 --> 00:30:51,850
this is showed up on no one else has

571
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:52,420
seen it

572
00:30:58,020 --> 00:30:56,080
so we think that the possibility this

573
00:31:00,300 --> 00:30:58,030
was part of the testing that like we did

574
00:31:03,030 --> 00:31:00,310
with believe you they were testing this

575
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:03,040
- you can't bill T to this radar and

576
00:31:10,050 --> 00:31:06,250
that's what they were seeing on it no

577
00:31:11,670 --> 00:31:10,060
I'm calling rape the system so they're

578
00:31:12,930 --> 00:31:11,680
testing this radar system which I think

579
00:31:18,110 --> 00:31:12,940
was a newer system and this is the

580
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:18,120
phased array radar right right and

581
00:31:25,620 --> 00:31:22,930
they're testing it with what this is

582
00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:25,630
that's your question is what are we

583
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:28,960
using now close on time violent question

584
00:31:33,780 --> 00:31:31,510
on it was it appeared it to lock on to

585
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:33,790
whatever it was and they check it in the

586
00:31:38,340 --> 00:31:36,010
radar gate you know he didn't have a

587
00:31:40,350 --> 00:31:38,350
solid track instead just seeing it pop

588
00:31:41,970 --> 00:31:40,360
up on her spelling stroke somewhere it

589
00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:41,980
was actually tracked like you're

590
00:31:49,020 --> 00:31:45,760
tracking a physical object and that was

591
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:49,030
refusing me what how are we've done that

592
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:53,410
I don't know but research I've been able

593
00:31:58,290 --> 00:31:55,930
to do that we do have they came built

594
00:32:00,930 --> 00:31:58,300
and make it smooth in the radar where it

595
00:32:05,340 --> 00:32:00,940
does like it is bitchin

596
00:32:07,710 --> 00:32:05,350
what is really yeah I read this one

597
00:32:11,250 --> 00:32:07,720
quote where you said talking about

598
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:11,260
palladium that at one point a Russian

599
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:13,840
MIG 15 pilot even claimed he could see

600
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:23,100
surprised we turn the system off right

601
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:25,690
quick probably afraid seen the suffering

602
00:32:33,390 --> 00:32:32,770
and but he was paid he said we don't

603
00:32:35,460 --> 00:32:33,400
know what

604
00:32:36,990 --> 00:32:35,470
so that's what we afraid of is he the

605
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:37,000
submarine still in the UH

606
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:41,530
and oviya relation balloons he might

607
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:43,810
have seen yet so that's all this in

608
00:32:49,020 --> 00:32:46,210
those days that's all the we were doing

609
00:32:52,130 --> 00:32:49,030
to test their radar was releasing these

610
00:32:58,519 --> 00:32:55,159
yeah we would release balloons off of

611
00:33:01,299 --> 00:32:58,529
the submarine and dipper side of the

612
00:33:06,139 --> 00:33:01,309
head forget what we call them the yeah

613
00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:06,149
but we had reflectors inside blue blue

614
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:07,710
to adjust the means you're carrying this

615
00:33:12,139 --> 00:33:09,690
thing up but but yeah these things were

616
00:33:15,919 --> 00:33:12,149
calibrated to different sizes so we're

617
00:33:19,490 --> 00:33:15,929
seeing just how small do you have to get

618
00:33:21,850 --> 00:33:19,500
before the radar won't see so we had all

619
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:21,860
these different sizes and they would

620
00:33:26,899 --> 00:33:24,450
drift them out and they kept a long

621
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:26,909
corner we knew they were still seeing

622
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:30,090
that science to the return so it's

623
00:33:34,129 --> 00:33:31,679
released from the submarine from

624
00:33:37,159 --> 00:33:34,139
underwater the balloon takes it to the

625
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:37,169
surface and then actually takes it up

626
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:41,130
into the sky yeah yeah I'll be reading

627
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:47,279
release several different sizes a Liam

628
00:33:52,879 --> 00:33:51,210
balloon exactly the blue magician

629
00:33:55,340 --> 00:33:52,889
carrier yeah I mean it is interesting

630
00:33:56,930 --> 00:33:55,350
because you know one of the parts of

631
00:33:58,190 --> 00:33:56,940
this hold Nimitz sighting is the pilot

632
00:34:00,139 --> 00:33:58,200
saying that he saw something that

633
00:34:03,980 --> 00:34:00,149
appeared to be just below the surface of

634
00:34:08,419 --> 00:34:03,990
the water or was good or was causing a

635
00:34:10,909 --> 00:34:08,429
disturbance of the water yeah but he's

636
00:34:12,409 --> 00:34:10,919
also there but but how do we explain the

637
00:34:13,579 --> 00:34:12,419
supersonic speed that they're observing

638
00:34:19,849 --> 00:34:13,589
where these things were going from

639
00:34:24,290 --> 00:34:19,859
50,000 when the swarm technology they

640
00:34:26,810 --> 00:34:24,300
got the radar systems or whatever

641
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:26,820
looking at thank you thing to warm the

642
00:34:32,089 --> 00:34:29,490
thing and they can actually make it

643
00:34:35,089 --> 00:34:32,099
disappear and then reappear over here so

644
00:34:38,919 --> 00:34:35,099
maybe that's what you know it's a who

645
00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:38,929
knows what else we got now but that's we

646
00:34:44,060 --> 00:34:41,609
probably research on the Air Force the

647
00:34:46,940 --> 00:34:44,070
Navy boat have been playing with this

648
00:34:50,409 --> 00:34:46,950
pretty a lot of gun out at White Sands

649
00:34:53,180 --> 00:34:50,419
were--they you don't have a GPS

650
00:34:55,579 --> 00:34:53,190
interferes that sort of thing so that's

651
00:34:58,579 --> 00:34:55,589
more plausible to you than this is

652
00:35:00,590 --> 00:34:58,589
actual US aircraft demonstrating some

653
00:35:03,630 --> 00:35:00,600
incredible new

654
00:35:05,610 --> 00:35:03,640
anti-gravity technology yeah I don't

655
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:05,620
think no I don't think we were trying

656
00:35:14,730 --> 00:35:12,610
anything real it's hard to say we're

657
00:35:16,530 --> 00:35:14,740
almost sir we don't have that and we had

658
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:16,540
to question you know we're here at

659
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:20,170
Russia at hypersonic crap missiles now

660
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:23,290
that this sort of thing 25,000 miles an

661
00:35:28,650 --> 00:35:26,410
hour or whatever and you really have to

662
00:35:32,910 --> 00:35:28,660
question a lot of that because like even

663
00:35:37,650 --> 00:35:32,920
with the a12 he was our enemy rotor

664
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:37,660
monitoring mark three two one twenty two

665
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:39,730
hundred mile an hour pattern bullet we

666
00:35:45,180 --> 00:35:41,890
hit up to twenty two hundred degree

667
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:45,190
temperature in places and that's what

668
00:35:49,590 --> 00:35:46,720
our limitation with the engine rotates

669
00:35:51,930 --> 00:35:49,600
faster but we didn't have any metals it

670
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:51,940
even though buddy use composite some of

671
00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:53,010
your titanium

672
00:35:57,900 --> 00:35:56,110
that was our limitation was the

673
00:35:59,520 --> 00:35:57,910
temperatures so when they're talking

674
00:36:02,130 --> 00:35:59,530
about and you know I don't know fifteen

675
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:02,140
at their reentered atmosphere you know

676
00:36:10,140 --> 00:36:05,770
it turned cherry red so you're mad and

677
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:10,150
it was rolled near Mach 25 it's like

678
00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:11,530
they're playing Russians are claiming to

679
00:36:18,620 --> 00:36:13,600
have so one of the got to can withstand

680
00:36:21,150 --> 00:36:18,630
that kind of temperature thousand juries

681
00:36:23,460 --> 00:36:21,160
explained to us the best you can as to

682
00:36:26,190 --> 00:36:23,470
this swarm technology you're talking

683
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:26,200
about and how it works and how this

684
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:28,960
could have fooled not just the radar

685
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:35,010
drone technology now where they release

686
00:36:39,540 --> 00:36:37,570
you know a really smelly number ways but

687
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:39,550
both the other planes and they're

688
00:36:45,150 --> 00:36:42,310
actually program if I was also

689
00:36:47,150 --> 00:36:45,160
demonstrations of it it's the last week

690
00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:47,160
or so where they make it they had

691
00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:49,750
hundreds of drones up there and they

692
00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:52,000
different form different things like her

693
00:36:57,780 --> 00:36:54,910
plane or ship and they'd they're

694
00:37:00,180 --> 00:36:57,790
programmed and you wouldn't have that

695
00:37:02,940 --> 00:37:00,190
many operators on the TV

696
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:02,950
y'all see same now where they fly it

697
00:37:07,230 --> 00:37:05,770
like a form of birds you know the or

698
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:07,240
something they just all follow each

699
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:10,090
other but the other controls now relate

700
00:37:16,590 --> 00:37:13,510
you actually release those names

701
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:16,600
c-130 and then this just refuses the

702
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:18,850
enemy you know they don't I have no idea

703
00:37:23,460 --> 00:37:21,370
how many planes are up there or if there

704
00:37:25,290 --> 00:37:23,470
are fines at all do you make them think

705
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:25,300
anything you want to nothing new

706
00:37:28,770 --> 00:37:27,370
technology is there that they're playing

707
00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:28,780
with it now and that's one thing to be

708
00:37:35,180 --> 00:37:30,910
dinner Y stands for they want to get

709
00:37:39,210 --> 00:37:35,190
away where they they the drones are

710
00:37:41,910 --> 00:37:39,220
independent of TPS I work they they are

711
00:37:45,770 --> 00:37:41,920
program where they do still work

712
00:37:48,420 --> 00:37:45,780
together about not rely on GPS signals

713
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:48,430
so going back to the tic-tac

714
00:38:01,710 --> 00:37:51,130
is it your believe that there was an

715
00:38:04,980 --> 00:38:01,720
actual object out there or it's a spook

716
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:04,990
there's something that appears you know

717
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:07,690
really appears to be really something

718
00:38:17,250 --> 00:38:12,850
could the radar thank you and what about

719
00:38:19,350 --> 00:38:17,260
would a human pilot think that he's

720
00:38:21,630 --> 00:38:19,360
actually seen the thing because I think

721
00:38:24,590 --> 00:38:21,640
you know the commander flavor said that

722
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:24,600
he actually saw it with his own eyes I

723
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:51,130
don't know about that military the the

724
00:39:02,640 --> 00:38:56,770
pilots often image there's that thing to

725
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:02,650
see this no other radar no one else what

726
00:39:06,660 --> 00:39:04,510
about anti-gravity technologies that's

727
00:39:09,150 --> 00:39:06,670
something that you've looked into that

728
00:39:14,220 --> 00:39:09,160
you're aware that the military's I've

729
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:14,230
been researching I just heard that that

730
00:39:19,950 --> 00:39:17,770
the there were not everything but I've

731
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:19,960
heard it one of the airway constant is

732
00:39:26,300 --> 00:39:22,930
that he got a coffee table in his Lobby

733
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:26,310
there's anti-gravity it's just

734
00:39:34,620 --> 00:39:30,250
I don't true or not but I've heard this

735
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:34,630
so obviously we work anything like that

736
00:39:41,250 --> 00:39:39,130
let's have been for years you know first

737
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:41,260
hand I don't know of anything there's

738
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:43,930
rumors that you yes so what about these

739
00:39:50,810 --> 00:39:46,450
US Navy patents have you heard about

740
00:40:04,050 --> 00:39:50,820
these that were just issued let's see in

741
00:40:05,070 --> 00:40:04,060
2017 can you hear me okay we so this is

742
00:40:06,930 --> 00:40:05,080
something maybe we should have sent you

743
00:40:11,070 --> 00:40:06,940
before the interview to let you review

744
00:40:14,220 --> 00:40:11,080
but it's these US Navy patents that talk

745
00:40:18,090 --> 00:40:14,230
about a craft using an inertial mass

746
00:40:24,260 --> 00:40:18,100
reduction device and these patents were

747
00:40:30,740 --> 00:40:28,530
remember that let's start with patents

748
00:40:32,850 --> 00:40:30,750
in general and the government I mean

749
00:40:34,860 --> 00:40:32,860
when you were working there was it

750
00:40:37,260 --> 00:40:34,870
common for you guys to invent something

751
00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:37,270
or and then take it to the US Patent

752
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:48,410
[Music]

753
00:40:55,590 --> 00:40:53,040
they went on an engine do what the jp-8

754
00:41:01,950 --> 00:40:55,600
I mean they blew one engine after

755
00:41:03,570 --> 00:41:01,960
another in Florida but dr. Bob Abernathy

756
00:41:06,690 --> 00:41:03,580
hose was to patent somebody's about

757
00:41:09,060 --> 00:41:06,700
everything on an engine he was designer

758
00:41:11,430 --> 00:41:09,070
of that engine so you has an answer is

759
00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:11,440
yes in the aerospace companies

760
00:41:18,510 --> 00:41:13,750
themselves they were getting patents on

761
00:41:19,530 --> 00:41:18,520
them while they were producing so this

762
00:41:21,270 --> 00:41:19,540
one is it's got a really interesting

763
00:41:24,410 --> 00:41:21,280
start to this patent I'll just read a

764
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:24,420
little bit of it to you and just see if

765
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:26,770
any of this rings a bell to stuff that

766
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:30,450
you had heard about because what they

767
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:33,730
described in this patent issued in 2017

768
00:41:39,630 --> 00:41:37,330
is very similar to these tic-tacs that

769
00:41:42,060 --> 00:41:39,640
these pilots believe that they in

770
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:42,070
countered so whether this is some big

771
00:41:46,110 --> 00:41:44,170
disinformation campaign or white because

772
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:46,120
it is a little odd that the Navy would

773
00:41:59,760 --> 00:41:49,330
file these patents publicly do not even

774
00:42:02,370 --> 00:41:59,770
under any type of protective seal now so

775
00:42:07,110 --> 00:42:02,380
you got this hypersonic cruise missile

776
00:42:09,420 --> 00:42:07,120
now who knows they go back to the read

777
00:42:11,580 --> 00:42:09,430
it for the you to the Russians claiming

778
00:42:14,340 --> 00:42:11,590
they had all these bombers and stuff so

779
00:42:16,890 --> 00:42:14,350
it's just we've always done we play

780
00:42:19,110 --> 00:42:16,900
games with each other I released

781
00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:19,120
something to make someone think that

782
00:42:24,630 --> 00:42:22,480
we've got something that's that they

783
00:42:26,940 --> 00:42:24,640
don't have they waste a lot of time you

784
00:42:29,070 --> 00:42:26,950
know it's backed out of area you know

785
00:42:32,820 --> 00:42:29,080
with the Russians would fly satellites

786
00:42:35,010 --> 00:42:32,830
over to see what we are doing there and

787
00:42:39,570 --> 00:42:35,020
we always do whether it's the infrared

788
00:42:44,210 --> 00:42:39,580
or RF seeking or whatever view what time

789
00:42:46,650 --> 00:42:44,220
they don't beat there so we were

790
00:42:49,230 --> 00:42:46,660
mysteriously and we did it from out of

791
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:49,240
or anything else but when takes maybe

792
00:42:51,750 --> 00:42:51,490
some cardboard something made shape of

793
00:43:04,080 --> 00:42:51,760
it

794
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:04,090
ever think that we had some kind of you

795
00:43:11,910 --> 00:43:06,970
saw a plane sitting on the are American

796
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:11,920
and we were flying flying the missions

797
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:14,290
in over Vietnam they had the Russian

798
00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:16,090
heavy rubber said right off the coast

799
00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:18,310
and every time we would take off they

800
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:21,730
video with the Vietnam every shot well

801
00:43:26,070 --> 00:43:24,490
we we only had three planes there but we

802
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:26,080
would change the serial numbers over the

803
00:43:30,030 --> 00:43:28,570
glitter paint on the water we don't

804
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:30,040
think we had a whole fleet of planes

805
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:33,090
when we only had three so that's coming

806
00:43:38,940 --> 00:43:35,530
playing games with each other to make

807
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:38,950
each other a waste your time and money

808
00:43:44,670 --> 00:43:40,810
trying to figure out what you give is

809
00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:44,680
for real and sort of thing well so it's

810
00:43:48,510 --> 00:43:46,510
very possible when you hear about these

811
00:43:51,210 --> 00:43:48,520
various UFO sightings by that people

812
00:43:52,630 --> 00:43:51,220
report is it your opinion that usually

813
00:43:57,329 --> 00:43:52,640
what they're seeing is some type

814
00:44:03,130 --> 00:43:57,339
of us technology that is being tested Oh

815
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:03,140
what was report wait here we can you

816
00:44:08,620 --> 00:44:06,130
hear me yeah right

817
00:44:11,650 --> 00:44:08,630
when you know there's all these UFO

818
00:44:13,779 --> 00:44:11,660
sightings that people report in your

819
00:44:18,299 --> 00:44:13,789
opinion are they usually actually seeing

820
00:44:26,349 --> 00:44:22,930
there's some nice pain and it should be

821
00:44:29,170 --> 00:44:26,359
it should be anything but it's like what

822
00:44:32,799 --> 00:44:29,180
the the a12 plane

823
00:44:36,599 --> 00:44:32,809
no one knew we had a noun an airport or

824
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:36,609
a lady initially and we flew

825
00:44:41,950 --> 00:44:39,890
2,850 mission data very fit to one in

826
00:44:44,829 --> 00:44:41,960
this plane to fly 17 miles high which

827
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:44,839
many times what any other planes will

828
00:44:49,390 --> 00:44:46,970
build slide and it's growing faster than

829
00:44:52,420 --> 00:44:49,400
the bullet and people would see it and

830
00:44:55,779 --> 00:44:52,430
it was you we weren't supposed to have

831
00:44:58,749 --> 00:44:55,789
anything like that and so we chose a lot

832
00:45:01,120 --> 00:44:58,759
of UFO sightings ourselves in and this

833
00:45:03,789 --> 00:45:01,130
was a concern we tried to not do that

834
00:45:06,490 --> 00:45:03,799
and give me example with a YouTube plane

835
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:06,500
it was flying 13 miles up and they were

836
00:45:11,470 --> 00:45:08,930
down in Sun hit it just right and that

837
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:11,480
people would see a glimmer of sunlight

838
00:45:17,529 --> 00:45:14,960
off of it they saw a UFO and we tried

839
00:45:20,140 --> 00:45:17,539
paint on this first thing we tried and

840
00:45:22,599 --> 00:45:20,150
the weight of the paint we lost 1500

841
00:45:25,059 --> 00:45:22,609
feet feet of altitude just from the

842
00:45:28,029 --> 00:45:25,069
weight of the plane and then we called a

843
00:45:30,210 --> 00:45:28,039
project we called rainbow we we strung

844
00:45:32,589 --> 00:45:30,220
wires on that thing

845
00:45:36,759 --> 00:45:32,599
piano wired everything of trying to

846
00:45:38,380 --> 00:45:36,769
reduce the fusing of the radar signals

847
00:45:41,410 --> 00:45:38,390
or whatever and everything we did but

848
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:41,420
first of all we lost weight and a lot of

849
00:45:48,249 --> 00:45:45,410
it it actually increased the radar cross

850
00:45:51,339 --> 00:45:48,259
engineer president introduced it when we

851
00:45:53,829 --> 00:45:51,349
built the a12 see I insisted that it be

852
00:45:57,220 --> 00:45:53,839
a stealth plane and this little black

853
00:46:00,430 --> 00:45:57,230
birds were about 90 percent snails but

854
00:46:02,829 --> 00:46:00,440
there's a 10% it shared eighty thousand

855
00:46:04,870 --> 00:46:02,839
pounds of fuel there no way you hide

856
00:46:08,089 --> 00:46:04,880
that much fuel for radar

857
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:08,099
that much mass and then you got her

858
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:10,170
pills temperatures and infrared would

859
00:46:17,180 --> 00:46:13,770
pick that up in a flash you know so we

860
00:46:18,740 --> 00:46:17,190
never were able to truly stealth but we

861
00:46:22,010 --> 00:46:18,750
learned enough we didn't reduce the

862
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:22,020
signature light where it was but appear

863
00:46:28,849 --> 00:46:25,530
to be a small plane like a Cessna so if

864
00:46:32,299 --> 00:46:28,859
this tic-tac was in fact us craft which

865
00:46:33,890 --> 00:46:32,309
you don't particularly believe but if it

866
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:33,900
was it's a secret that would have had to

867
00:46:39,380 --> 00:46:35,730
have been kept for well over 20 years

868
00:46:41,839 --> 00:46:39,390
now at this point does that in your

869
00:46:44,510 --> 00:46:41,849
opinion pass the smell test that that we

870
00:46:48,490 --> 00:46:44,520
could keep something secret that long is

871
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:48,500
possible we called the lacquer with the

872
00:47:00,319 --> 00:46:54,960
r8 whales by birds we retired over 98

873
00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:00,329
and we didn't in storage know when you

874
00:47:06,770 --> 00:47:05,040
go to 1991 and talk about the talk about

875
00:47:10,130 --> 00:47:06,780
the amount of money that's being poured

876
00:47:12,109 --> 00:47:10,140
into these projects I mean I'm one of

877
00:47:44,900 --> 00:47:12,119
our guests at thirty billion dollars a

878
00:47:47,690 --> 00:47:44,910
year into but at thirty billion dollars

879
00:47:50,690 --> 00:47:47,700
a year for going on 30 straight years or

880
00:47:52,430 --> 00:47:50,700
40 years or whatever it's been we got to

881
00:47:56,720 --> 00:47:52,440
have something very significant to show

882
00:48:14,540 --> 00:47:56,730
for that so to me it all baby the to

883
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:14,550
show for that money

884
00:48:19,100 --> 00:48:16,770
watch your quarterback but it hit

885
00:48:23,660 --> 00:48:19,110
producer then we did a lot of a cruiser

886
00:48:27,050 --> 00:48:23,670
concept vehicle then and we throw some

887
00:48:30,020 --> 00:48:27,060
in platforms for less you burn prey and

888
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:30,030
your tattered blue be satisfied we

889
00:48:35,050 --> 00:48:32,400
caught the whale but these be proof of

890
00:48:37,820 --> 00:48:35,060
concept vehicle never intended to fly

891
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:37,830
operationally so he built them to

892
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:39,690
develop something like the b-2 bomber

893
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:42,960
the the the whale which are attack it

894
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:46,290
blew it produced the b-2 bomber and it

895
00:48:52,070 --> 00:48:49,890
also produces the stealth cruise missile

896
00:48:53,810 --> 00:48:52,080
but we built a lot of stuff like that

897
00:48:58,010 --> 00:48:53,820
that we flew out there really weird

898
00:49:00,650 --> 00:48:58,020
stuff but it's just a crucial concept so

899
00:49:04,130 --> 00:49:00,660
if we can keep secrets for over 20 years

900
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:04,140
30 years it's no telling what our

901
00:49:06,550 --> 00:49:05,760
government has right now that we don't

902
00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:06,560
know about

903
00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:11,730
absolutely you can imagine we're not

904
00:49:14,990 --> 00:49:13,260
think about what we did beside we'll

905
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:15,000
remember we were just so excited goes

906
00:49:22,190 --> 00:49:18,450
Monday and we built the fabula 812 kill

907
00:49:30,130 --> 00:49:22,200
the fastest plane ever built man plane

908
00:49:37,430 --> 00:49:34,190
so let me ask you to imagine a bit what

909
00:49:38,990 --> 00:49:37,440
do you imagine the US government may now

910
00:49:48,950 --> 00:49:39,000
have that we're only going to find out

911
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:48,960
about sometime in the future we talked

912
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:51,450
about the Russian developer sighting I

913
00:50:02,990 --> 00:50:01,340
however was really quick trying to go

914
00:50:07,460 --> 00:50:03,000
with fast planes that's no longer

915
00:50:08,990 --> 00:50:07,470
popular you know Trondheim our plane we

916
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:09,000
go now the sensors

917
00:50:13,790 --> 00:50:11,130
let's build a smart plane it doesn't

918
00:50:16,820 --> 00:50:13,800
have to be fast let's build something

919
00:50:18,770 --> 00:50:16,830
that you got the sensors on where no one

920
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:18,780
can tell or where's the other ones done

921
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:20,250
or that sort of thing

922
00:50:24,980 --> 00:50:24,240
so you have 20 2013 2 thing is that is

923
00:50:34,570 --> 00:50:24,990
Madison

924
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:34,580
the f-35 is not but the f-22 is and so

925
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:37,050
tell me exactly what what this Russian

926
00:50:51,230 --> 00:50:40,170
hypersonic technology is that they're

927
00:51:00,200 --> 00:50:51,240
that they're at least talking about 25

928
00:51:04,030 --> 00:51:00,210
which is huge number and how does it

929
00:51:07,460 --> 00:51:04,040
achieve that we're going home and we

930
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:07,470
question whether you really good but you

931
00:51:13,460 --> 00:51:10,770
imagine clearly the US is also doing its

932
00:51:16,850 --> 00:51:13,470
own research and development when it

933
00:51:26,900 --> 00:51:16,860
comes to supersonic speeds hypersonic

934
00:51:43,700 --> 00:51:26,910
speeds my gravity is something you think

935
00:51:46,130 --> 00:51:43,710
for sure we're also investing so so if

936
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:46,140
you are a betting man and you're in

937
00:51:51,740 --> 00:51:48,810
Vegas and you're betting on what these

938
00:51:56,900 --> 00:51:51,750
Tic Tacs actually are you're betting

939
00:51:59,450 --> 00:51:56,910
that this is some type of faux reality

940
00:52:00,440 --> 00:51:59,460
that the government is able to create to

941
00:52:13,900 --> 00:52:00,450
fool

942
00:52:34,609 --> 00:52:13,910
the radar systems not extraterrestrial

943
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:34,619
no airplane pose we don't do that so

944
00:52:38,210 --> 00:52:36,810
give us your observation about all these

945
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:38,220
people like get all worked up

946
00:52:43,070 --> 00:52:40,530
area 51 and they want a storm area 51

947
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:43,080
and they're hiding aliens there it's etc

948
00:53:00,740 --> 00:52:45,119
I mean is this all just high comedy to

949
00:53:04,190 --> 00:53:00,750
you guys that work your imagination run

950
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:04,200
wild what are you gonna stay we've done

951
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:12,960
so good sort of thing so people in the

952
00:53:17,690 --> 00:53:14,730
Roadrunner community which is this

953
00:53:20,900 --> 00:53:17,700
community of area 51 people who had

954
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:20,910
worked there among that group is is is

955
00:53:24,099 --> 00:53:22,530
there any among them that believe that

956
00:53:34,790 --> 00:53:24,109
we've actually been visited by

957
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:34,800
extraterrestrial crafts you don't deny

958
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:36,930
there could be extraterrestrial life out

959
00:53:49,089 --> 00:53:38,730
there but no one believes we've been

960
00:53:53,839 --> 00:53:49,099
visited by it's out there with you know

961
00:54:00,770 --> 00:53:53,849
the nurse star service it's three trade

962
00:54:01,970 --> 00:54:00,780
miles away that's lonely okay last

963
00:54:04,670 --> 00:54:01,980
question before I'm gonna hand this over

964
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:04,680
to Michael our producer who has done

965
00:54:08,450 --> 00:54:06,210
many years of research into this kind of

966
00:54:08,690 --> 00:54:08,460
stuff I want to let him ask too if you'd

967
00:54:11,030 --> 00:54:08,700
like

968
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:11,040
but backed back to what this thing

969
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:12,330
likely was so it sounds like you're

970
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:17,130
saying 0% extraterrestrial I imagine

971
00:54:21,950 --> 00:54:19,200
you're giving some percentage likelihood

972
00:54:23,329 --> 00:54:21,960
that it could actually be a u.s. craft

973
00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:23,339
right what percent chance are you

974
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:25,920
getting that versus it being just the

975
00:54:49,070 --> 00:54:44,490
radar doing plan with now as its form

976
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:49,080
technology really they don't know what

977
00:54:53,050 --> 00:54:50,170
chase

978
00:55:07,020 --> 00:54:53,060
that leaves 30% that it is actually at

979
00:55:09,370 --> 00:55:07,030
us and gravity-defying craft oh come on

980
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:09,380
what's the way I don't understand the

981
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:10,610
difference what's the difference between

982
00:55:28,570 --> 00:55:20,090
the spoofing and the electronic because

983
00:55:30,250 --> 00:55:28,580
they knew magic yeah but those that

984
00:55:31,900 --> 00:55:30,260
they've been reporting in Colorado and

985
00:55:34,060 --> 00:55:31,910
Nebraska etc they're not you know

986
00:55:42,490 --> 00:55:34,070
zipping around at 24,000 miles an hour

987
00:55:44,050 --> 00:55:42,500
like like this alright so what so so are

988
00:55:54,490 --> 00:55:44,060
you giving me any percentage on it being

989
00:56:02,020 --> 00:55:54,500
a gravity-defying u.s. craft no can't

990
00:56:08,980 --> 00:56:02,030
hear me no you just don't want to answer

991
00:56:11,260 --> 00:56:08,990
my question very very less wrap up a

992
00:56:13,510 --> 00:56:11,270
question just to put a bow on it in all

993
00:56:16,510 --> 00:56:13,520
things that you've heard about read

994
00:56:18,820 --> 00:56:16,520
about seen experienced etc the idea of a

995
00:56:21,250 --> 00:56:18,830
tic-tac shaped object that's about 46

996
00:56:24,010 --> 00:56:21,260
feet long is that ring a bell to you at

997
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:24,020
all is that is anything that could be or

998
00:56:40,540 --> 00:56:24,890
something that you've seen or heard

999
00:56:43,150 --> 00:56:40,550
about our work done shaped object thank

1000
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:43,160
you again to TD Barnes for coming on the

1001
00:56:48,910 --> 00:56:45,410
show you can access more information

1002
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:48,920
about TD Barnes by going to TD - Barnes

1003
00:56:53,470 --> 00:56:52,130
calm that's TD - Barnes calm you can see

1004
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:53,480
all the articles that he's written in

1005
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:54,970
the various books that he has written

1006
00:56:59,110 --> 00:56:57,410
thank you again to our producer Michael

1007
00:57:01,810 --> 00:56:59,120
Parker we'll be back next week with

1008
00:57:05,010 --> 00:57:01,820
another episode of

1009
00:57:06,970 --> 00:57:05,020
[Music]

1010
00:57:08,470 --> 00:57:06,980
thank you for listening at the hidden

1011
00:57:10,450 --> 00:57:08,480
truth show with Jim Breslow

1012
00:57:13,870 --> 00:57:10,460
you can find us at hidden truths

1013
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:13,880
show.com follow us on Facebook Twitter

1014
00:57:19,030 --> 00:57:16,810
and Instagram and he in the trade show

1015
00:57:21,910 --> 00:57:19,040
join us again next week for another

1016
00:57:23,870 --> 00:57:21,920
episode of Hamlin trade show with Jim